'Meno' is a typical dialogue between a man named Meno and Socrates. The conversation gets rolling when Meno asks:
"Can you tell me, Socrates, whether virtue is acquired by teaching or by practice; or if neither teaching nor by practice, then whether it comes to man by nature, or in what other way?"
Socrates, as is his wont, cannot give a straight answer.
"...I confess with shame that I know literally nothing about virtue; and when I do not know the 'quid' of anything how can I know the 'quale'?"
Thus begins the Socratic dialogue wherein the seek the meaning of virtue so that they can circle back to the original question of how it is acquired. (The smartass in me might have given Socrates some purposefully bad answer, 'Virtue is the quality by which one judges a horse!', just to force him into a straight answer. We're probably better off that Plato didn't write 'Meno' in that way.)
Meno tries to define virtue. He speaks of administering the state, benefiting himself and injuring enemies and taking care not to suffer personal harm. He lists a woman's duties as keeping house and obeying her husband. Then he notes that different ages and conditions have different virtues. "Virtue is relative to the actions and ages of each of us in all that we do. The same may be said of vice."
Socrates notes that the definition is 'a swarm' and not very precise and asks for some common element. Meno finds this difficult but Socrates keeps at it. He notes that both men and women must have temperance and justice. Meno agrees that justice is virtue. The verbal jousting goes on at some length. Meno comes around to suggesting that 'Virtue is the desire of things honourable and the power of attaining them." Socrates counters that everyone really thinks of themselves as honourable; is everyone virtuous? No, of course they're not.
Eventually they get back to the main question. Socrates points out that virtuous men don't always have virtuous children. If their children could be taught virtue, like they can be taught things like horse-riding, then these virtuous men would certainly have done a better job teaching them. He concludes that the absence of teachers suggests that virtue cannot be taught. There is a pretty obvious flaw in that reasoning.
I'm a fan of the Socratic method but there is a fine line between an honest search for answers and using verbal cleverness to make others feel foolish. I have trouble reading Plato/Socrates as being on the right side of that line.
Sunday, April 14, 2013
Thursday, April 11, 2013
Plato vs Aristotle
While I was gathering material for this months readings, I was reminded that Ayn Rand's views on aesthetics were guided, at least in part, by Aristotle. I'll write about that connection later, but while I was looking for it, I found this Rand quote on Aristotle:
"Aristotle may be regarded as the cultural barometer of Western history. Whenever his influence dominated the scene, it paved the way for one of history's brilliant eras; whenever it fell, so did mankind. The Aristotelian revival of the thirteenth century brought men to the Renaissance. The intellectual counter-revolution turned them back to the cave of his antipode: Plato.
There is only one fundamental issue in philosophy: the cognitive efficacy of man's mind. The conflict of Aristotle versus Plato is the conflict of reason versus mysticism. It was Plato who formulated most of philosophy's basic questions - and doubts. It was Aristotle who laid the foundation for most of the answers. Thereafter, the record of their duel is the record of man's long struggle to deny and surrender or to uphold and assert the validity of his particular mode of consciousness."
I've written before about the bright spots of Western history (ancient Greece and Rome, Renaissance Italy, Enlightenment Paris and England). I don't really know enough about the darker spots to find common reasons for their declines. This is something that I'll keep an eye out for now.
I do want to write something that is at least a bit in Plato's defense. After I wrote about Plato last year, Stan left this comment:
"I've always liked the Whitehead quote, and I've always viewed systematic interpretations of Plato with suspicion. Take the Republic: Is Socrates Plato's mouthpiece? Didn't Plato write the arguments of the other characters as well? Does dialectic lend itself to system? We don't think of Shakespeare as any one of his characters, so why think of Plato as any one of his? Whitehead is suggesting that the seeds of even contradictory philosophies are all found in Plato. For me, the dialogues are best read as a training ground for philosophic thought, rather than a source for statements of Platonic dogma."
This year when I read Plato I tried to keep the 'training ground' idea in front of me and that helped.
"Aristotle may be regarded as the cultural barometer of Western history. Whenever his influence dominated the scene, it paved the way for one of history's brilliant eras; whenever it fell, so did mankind. The Aristotelian revival of the thirteenth century brought men to the Renaissance. The intellectual counter-revolution turned them back to the cave of his antipode: Plato.
There is only one fundamental issue in philosophy: the cognitive efficacy of man's mind. The conflict of Aristotle versus Plato is the conflict of reason versus mysticism. It was Plato who formulated most of philosophy's basic questions - and doubts. It was Aristotle who laid the foundation for most of the answers. Thereafter, the record of their duel is the record of man's long struggle to deny and surrender or to uphold and assert the validity of his particular mode of consciousness."
I've written before about the bright spots of Western history (ancient Greece and Rome, Renaissance Italy, Enlightenment Paris and England). I don't really know enough about the darker spots to find common reasons for their declines. This is something that I'll keep an eye out for now.
I do want to write something that is at least a bit in Plato's defense. After I wrote about Plato last year, Stan left this comment:
"I've always liked the Whitehead quote, and I've always viewed systematic interpretations of Plato with suspicion. Take the Republic: Is Socrates Plato's mouthpiece? Didn't Plato write the arguments of the other characters as well? Does dialectic lend itself to system? We don't think of Shakespeare as any one of his characters, so why think of Plato as any one of his? Whitehead is suggesting that the seeds of even contradictory philosophies are all found in Plato. For me, the dialogues are best read as a training ground for philosophic thought, rather than a source for statements of Platonic dogma."
This year when I read Plato I tried to keep the 'training ground' idea in front of me and that helped.
Monday, April 8, 2013
Thomas Gray - Poetry
The next poem is our first one by a poet born in the 18th century, Thomas Gray. The title is 'Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard. The little intro paragraph says that it is 'One of the most quoted of all English poems...'. The entire piece is too long for me to type out, but here is a link to the full text.
The whole poem is very worthwhile. My favorite bit:
Full many a gem of purest ray serene,
The dark unfathom'd caves of ocean bear:
Full many a flow'r is born to blush unseen,
And waste its sweetness on the desert air.
What a well put sentiment! The entire poem is written about a small graveyard and the people buried there. This section of it wonders on the potential of the dead and what they didn't accomplish. Dead before they could really shine, or worse, filled with potential that they couldn't tap into.
A very beautiful poem.
The whole poem is very worthwhile. My favorite bit:
Full many a gem of purest ray serene,
The dark unfathom'd caves of ocean bear:
Full many a flow'r is born to blush unseen,
And waste its sweetness on the desert air.
What a well put sentiment! The entire poem is written about a small graveyard and the people buried there. This section of it wonders on the potential of the dead and what they didn't accomplish. Dead before they could really shine, or worse, filled with potential that they couldn't tap into.
A very beautiful poem.
Sunday, April 7, 2013
Paparazzi of Plato
Every time I read Plato, I'm reminded of this wonderful New Yorker piece by Steve Martin.
TABLOIDUS: Socrates, I wanted to show you my new Nikon FM2 with a 600-millimetre lens.
SOCRATES: Thank you, Tabloidus. It looks fine for taking pictures of ducks flying off in the distance.
MO-PED: That is a very fine purpose, in combination with a motorbike and an infrared night scope.
CLOOLUS: What else do you photograph besides nature?
TABLOIDUS: I love to photograph children.
SOCRATES: That, too, is a good and noble profession.
TABLOIDUS: There is nothing more beautiful to photograph than a mother breast-feeding her baby. Especially if it is Madonna.
CLOOLUS: You photographed Madonna breast-feeding her baby?
TABLOIDUS: Oh, yes.
SOCRATES: What was she like in person?
TABLOIDUS: Well, I didn't actually meet her.
SOCRATES: Was she so full of herself that she would not speak to you?
TABLOIDUS: Oh, no. Because of the lens, I had to be three hundred yards away and shoot through her bedroom window.
CLOOLUS: It seems odd to me that Madonna would agree to have herself photographed this way.
TABLOIDUS: Her agreement was tacit.
CLOOLUS: But it seems to me you have invaded her privacy.
SOCRATES: Cloolus, what is privacy?
CLOOLUS: Privacy is when you are alone.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are alone in a crowded market?
CLOOLUS: Certainly not.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are alone in a car?
CLOOLUS: More so, Socrates.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are in a car with tinted windows?
CLOOLUS: That is starting to be private.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are in your home?
CLOOLUS: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Is it not true that if you tint your windows or stay home you are in some way protecting your privacy?
MO-PED: It cannot be otherwise.
CLOOLUS: But Madonna was in her home.
SOCRATES: Yes, but her windows were not tinted with UV-40 Reflecto-coat. Nor was she alone.
MO-PED: She was with her baby!
SOCRATES: Therefore, she was not protecting her privacy. And how can one invade what is not protected?
CLOOLUS: I am confused.
SOCRATES: Can something be tinted and not tinted a the same time?
CLOOLUS: It would be impossible.
SOCRATES: Can something be private and public at the same time?
CLOOLUS: They are mutually exclusive.
SOCRATES: And is it not true that privacy and UV-40 Reflecto-coat are one and the same?
MO-PED: He has proved it!
SOCRATES: Tabloidus, where were you when you took the picture?
TABLOIDUS: I was hiding on a rooftop. Further, I was wearing black clothing and a hood.
SOCRATES: So you were merely protecting your privacy while Madonna invaded your camera lens?
TABLOIDUS: I cannot argue otherwise, Socrates.
CLOOLUS: But is it not wrong to spy on a woman breast-feeding her baby?
MO-PED: When you become a singing star, it is wrong to want your breast-feeding to be private.
CLOOLUS: But why?
TABLOIDUS: Because of the public's right to know.
SOCRATES: Is it not true, Cloolus, that when the public is shopping in a supermarket, very often at the checkout point it has an overwhelming desire to see Alec Baldwin's newborn or Frank Gifford having sex?
CLOOLUS: I cannot deny it.
TABLOIDUS: Socrates, I wanted to show you my new Nikon FM2 with a 600-millimetre lens.
SOCRATES: Thank you, Tabloidus. It looks fine for taking pictures of ducks flying off in the distance.
MO-PED: That is a very fine purpose, in combination with a motorbike and an infrared night scope.
CLOOLUS: What else do you photograph besides nature?
TABLOIDUS: I love to photograph children.
SOCRATES: That, too, is a good and noble profession.
TABLOIDUS: There is nothing more beautiful to photograph than a mother breast-feeding her baby. Especially if it is Madonna.
CLOOLUS: You photographed Madonna breast-feeding her baby?
TABLOIDUS: Oh, yes.
SOCRATES: What was she like in person?
TABLOIDUS: Well, I didn't actually meet her.
SOCRATES: Was she so full of herself that she would not speak to you?
TABLOIDUS: Oh, no. Because of the lens, I had to be three hundred yards away and shoot through her bedroom window.
CLOOLUS: It seems odd to me that Madonna would agree to have herself photographed this way.
TABLOIDUS: Her agreement was tacit.
CLOOLUS: But it seems to me you have invaded her privacy.
SOCRATES: Cloolus, what is privacy?
CLOOLUS: Privacy is when you are alone.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are alone in a crowded market?
CLOOLUS: Certainly not.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are alone in a car?
CLOOLUS: More so, Socrates.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are in a car with tinted windows?
CLOOLUS: That is starting to be private.
SOCRATES: Are you private when you are in your home?
CLOOLUS: Certainly.
SOCRATES: Is it not true that if you tint your windows or stay home you are in some way protecting your privacy?
MO-PED: It cannot be otherwise.
CLOOLUS: But Madonna was in her home.
SOCRATES: Yes, but her windows were not tinted with UV-40 Reflecto-coat. Nor was she alone.
MO-PED: She was with her baby!
SOCRATES: Therefore, she was not protecting her privacy. And how can one invade what is not protected?
CLOOLUS: I am confused.
SOCRATES: Can something be tinted and not tinted a the same time?
CLOOLUS: It would be impossible.
SOCRATES: Can something be private and public at the same time?
CLOOLUS: They are mutually exclusive.
SOCRATES: And is it not true that privacy and UV-40 Reflecto-coat are one and the same?
MO-PED: He has proved it!
SOCRATES: Tabloidus, where were you when you took the picture?
TABLOIDUS: I was hiding on a rooftop. Further, I was wearing black clothing and a hood.
SOCRATES: So you were merely protecting your privacy while Madonna invaded your camera lens?
TABLOIDUS: I cannot argue otherwise, Socrates.
CLOOLUS: But is it not wrong to spy on a woman breast-feeding her baby?
MO-PED: When you become a singing star, it is wrong to want your breast-feeding to be private.
CLOOLUS: But why?
TABLOIDUS: Because of the public's right to know.
SOCRATES: Is it not true, Cloolus, that when the public is shopping in a supermarket, very often at the checkout point it has an overwhelming desire to see Alec Baldwin's newborn or Frank Gifford having sex?
CLOOLUS: I cannot deny it.
Saturday, April 6, 2013
Greek Timeline
Normally I'd put up biographies of Plato and Aristotle but I did that last year. You can read them here and here if you'd like. The main reason that I do the biographic sketches is so that I can get a feel for the people and their times. I've been trying to get a handle on the larger picture of ancient Greece by reading and watching documentaries on the period. There were three different wars that pictured the ancient Greek worldview and it's useful to put the various writers in context of those wars. (As future historians learn about the 20th century, they'll need to be very aware of both world wars and the Vietnam war. Same deal.)
Trojan War - (Sometime in the 1200s or 1100s BC) This was the legendary war that provided so many stories of heroism and courage. The Greeks wrote and sung about the happenings of this war for centuries.
Homer - (850 BC?) The Homeric epics cemented the Trojan war and its aftermath in Greek storytelling.
Aeschylus - (525 - 456 BC) Wrote about Agamemnon's return from the wars and the ensuing bloodbath.
Greco/Persian wars - (499 - 449 BC) Notably, this started with a Greek adventure into Persian territory. The Persians counter-invaded in 492 and the incredibly influential battle of Marathon happened in 490. Two generations of Greeks lived with the reality of war with the Persian empire.
Sophocles (497-405 BC) and Herodotus (484 - 425 BC) - Both men grew up in the wars. It's notable that Herodotus traveled extensively during this whole period.
Socrates (469 - 399 BC) - Grew up as the wars were winding down. Was in his late 30's when the next war really heated up.
Peloponnesian War (431 - 404 BC) - This war had many phases, but the most important for this timeline is that Athens was completely humbled by the end. We're set to read Thucydides on this subject next year.
Plato (428 - 348 BC) - Grew up during the long fight with Sparta. His adulthood was mostly in the post-war era.
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) - Lived entirely after the wars. By this time Athens was no longer had an empire nor a world power.
Trojan War - (Sometime in the 1200s or 1100s BC) This was the legendary war that provided so many stories of heroism and courage. The Greeks wrote and sung about the happenings of this war for centuries.
Homer - (850 BC?) The Homeric epics cemented the Trojan war and its aftermath in Greek storytelling.
Aeschylus - (525 - 456 BC) Wrote about Agamemnon's return from the wars and the ensuing bloodbath.
Greco/Persian wars - (499 - 449 BC) Notably, this started with a Greek adventure into Persian territory. The Persians counter-invaded in 492 and the incredibly influential battle of Marathon happened in 490. Two generations of Greeks lived with the reality of war with the Persian empire.
Sophocles (497-405 BC) and Herodotus (484 - 425 BC) - Both men grew up in the wars. It's notable that Herodotus traveled extensively during this whole period.
Socrates (469 - 399 BC) - Grew up as the wars were winding down. Was in his late 30's when the next war really heated up.
Peloponnesian War (431 - 404 BC) - This war had many phases, but the most important for this timeline is that Athens was completely humbled by the end. We're set to read Thucydides on this subject next year.
Plato (428 - 348 BC) - Grew up during the long fight with Sparta. His adulthood was mostly in the post-war era.
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) - Lived entirely after the wars. By this time Athens was no longer had an empire nor a world power.
Wednesday, April 3, 2013
Author Timeline
BC
Homer 7th or 8th Cent(?)
Aeschylus 525-456
Sophocles 497-405
Herodotus 484-425
Plato 428-347
Aristotle 384-322
Lucretius 99-55
AD
Nicomachus 60-120
Marcus Aurelius 121-180
Hobbes 1588-1679
Milton 1608-1674
Pascal 1623-1662
Swift 1667-1745
Rousseau 1712-1778
Kant 1724-1804
Mill 1806-1873
Homer 7th or 8th Cent(?)
Aeschylus 525-456
Sophocles 497-405
Herodotus 484-425
Plato 428-347
Aristotle 384-322
Lucretius 99-55
AD
Nicomachus 60-120
Marcus Aurelius 121-180
Hobbes 1588-1679
Milton 1608-1674
Pascal 1623-1662
Swift 1667-1745
Rousseau 1712-1778
Kant 1724-1804
Mill 1806-1873
Monday, April 1, 2013
April Readings
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)